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Georger on the Confusion over the Flight Path

(1) Two witnesses (Snowmman post) say Scott informed RH at RH’s retirement party (?) that 305 overflew Woodland just before Cooper bailed. (2) Likewise, the NWA-FBI Search map (black and white map) uses Woodland as the north-west plot mark which begins the primary search area. (3) The searches near Ariel beginning after 11/24/71 are just south of Woodland ?

Admittedly, Scott is supposedly telling RH that they overflew Woodland, years after 1971! However, the first NWA-FBI Search map uses Woodland as the nor-west cornerstone of the first search area south of Woodland, with searches beginning right after 11-24-71; that is documented.

I may have the rest confused. That would not be a surprise, frankly. Somewhere, is a post or an article or something which we all read that describes people in a helicopter looking for lights on the roads, campfire, or anything else unusual … and I thought this was on the evening of 11/24/71 ? I recall that in this article or post the comment is made that due to the fog, the search was useless so they turned around eventually and came back to PDX. This sounds like a “search” as opposed to the idea of “trying to chase 305 down” which was preposterous on it’s face! If I recall this article or post or whatever it was correctly, they searched not only near Woodland, they searched a route meaning they searched in several areas? But, I cannot find that document in my files or anywhere at DZ … so maybe I dreamed this! ??? Maybe somebody else recalls the article Im referring to ?

It strikes me as a little odd that Scott would wait until 1980 to convey (to RH) his crucial info about “we flew over Woodland!” when in fact NWA identified Woodland almost immediately as evidenced by the fact (Solderlind) uses Woodland as the cornerstone of the first NWA-FBI Search map! Maybe Scott gave his info to NWA first in 1971 and only thought to tell RH (who was not the lead agent in the case) until1980? Who knows. The fact is, Woodland sit in a prominent position almost as the pivot-point for the first actual searches that were conducted, in 1971.

And of course the corollary to all of this is the fact that Woodland “is” west of V23. And Tina Bar and the relevant part of the Columbia River Basin one might surmise might have been involved in a deposit on Tina Bar, sits south of Woodland.

I think it is a safe assumption that the first estimate of Cooper’s drop zone came fairly quickly (from NWA) the evening of 11/24/71 perhaps only minutes after the crew’s report of oscillations and no further contact with Cooper in the back. Somebody at NWA used Woodland in their equation, in any event, in time to be searching near there the next day, at the very least?

Snowmman doubted for a time that RH was even on a helicopter, or that anyone in their right minds would try to intercept 305 much less chase it down when 305 was already at least 60 miles south of PDX at the very time any helo is leaving PDX! It would make a helluva lot more sense to go north and search the area people were identifying as the area Cooper likely bailed in, near Woodland. Like Snowmman, I dont buy the idea that Scott didn’t have a good idea of where they were around the time they thought Cooper bailed, near Woodland. And I think Scott conveyed his info to NWA very quickly; he didn’t wait until 1980! ;)

I’m not saying RH and his pilots did not try a run south to look for 305, but it was futile on it’s face, and I am very suspicious to know the total amount of time that helo was in the air because that amount of time may exceed any southern run they made, or could have made, and still returned back to PDX to be logged in at Time = ???. The total time may indeed include time for being elsewhere? And was there more than one trip logged? More than one helo – were two in the air?

But, we know Woodland figured heavily in the first flight path map NWA generated, because it is there in black and white for searches beginning the next day. That can’t be denied.

I know there is a document, article or post, that describes people searching at night in a helo north of Portland. The post is specific and describes searchers looking for traffic lights on roads, any suspicious lights or activity, campfires, any sign of activity or anything suspicious etc, and they could not continue because of the adverse conditions so they came back to PDX. I thought they went north and were searching in the Woodland area. ? I thought this involved FBI agents and Himmelsbach? This was posted somewhere by somebody since 2008 ? :-

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Big List of FBI agents Associated with Norjak

Atlas asked me for contacts at the FBI, and I gave them this list. I also included the contact information for about half of these folks.

Did I miss anyone?
***************

Norjak Case Agents (All Norjak Case Agents are Seattle-based.):

1. Curtis Eng, 2010-present
2. Larry Carr, 2007-2009
3. Eric Mueller, 2004, defended FBI in law suit by Galen Cook
4. Ralph Hope, 1995-2001
5. Ron Nichols, 1977- 1990(?) Norjak case agent when money was found in 1980
6. Charlie Farrell, 1971-1977, original Norjak case agent

Principal Norjak Agents, Seattle FO, the Office of Origin:

1. J. Earl Milnes, team leader at Sea-Tac on Nov. 24, 1971
2. Tom Manning, team leader for ground search, November, 1971
3. John Detlor, squad leader, Norjak; also wrote “History of FBI.”
4. George Grotz, rookie agent on ground search, April 1972
5. Gary Tallis, spotter on helos for two weeks. Nov 1971
6. Sid Rubin, Sea-Tac perimeter security night of skyjacking
7. Bob Sale, joined FBI in 1970s, part of org. crime task force, friend of Farrell
8. Ron Glasser, Nichols’ assistant and best friend, 1980-1990 circa.
9. Bob Fuhriman, special agent, still follows the case – at Gray’s book signing, 2011
10. John Steele, special agent, 1971
11. Jeremy Blauser, joined Norjak in 2008, then disappeared,

Portland FO:

1. Julie Mattson, SAC, 1971, first on scene at PDX, took command.
2. Ralph Himmelsbach, skyjacking specialist, 1971-1980, team leader on money find, 1980; also presented govt case in Grand Jury hearing, 1976.
3. Dorwin Schroeder, skyjacking specialist, 1980-1995, PIO for money find in 1980
4. Mike McPheters, skyjacking specialist in Miami and Portland, on money find dig

Other FOs:

1. Russ Calame, SAC, Salt Lake City, 1972, collared McCoy, 1972.
2. Nick O’Hara, team leader in Virginia Beach shoot out with McCoy, 1974.
3. Lee Dormuth, special agent in San Diego, 1971, brother in law of Tina Mucklow, flew to Reno, Nov. 24, 1971.
4. Mary Jane Fryar, team leader, San Francisco FO, swabbed Sheridan Peterson, 2002
5. Nicole Devereaux, special agent, San Francisco, investigated Peterson, 2002
6. Red Campbell, Las Vegas FO, team leader for evidence retrieval, Reno, 1971
7. John Norris, Reno FO, supervising agent, evidence retrieval in Reno, 1971
8. Jack Ricks, special agent, part of four-man squad on board 305 for evidence retrieval.
9. Alf Stousland, special agent, fourth member of on-board team for evidence retrieval. Note: Campbell, Norris, Ricks and Stousland were all interviewed by Bernie Rhodes multiple times and were found to be “victims of some strange post-hypnotic suggestion.”

Other principals:

1. Ayn Dietrich-Williams, PIO, Seattle, 2010-present
2. Robbie Burroughs, PIO Seattle, 2007-2009
3. Fred Gutt, acting PIO Seattle, 2009-present
4. “Jake” and “Jimmy” interviewed Sailshaw, 2012.

58 November Hijacking

Tidbits From the Cooper Forum:

My name is Andy Downs and my father was the Captain killed on the 58 November flight. I first want to thank whoever posted this info. It means a great deal to me and my family.

My dad’s flight did make nation news. If you go to the VIDEO Tab on the http://58November.com site you will see Walter Cronkite Reporting on the event.

However DB Cooper took the spotlight quick and pushed coverage of my dad’s case way down.

I am posting a link to a private url I have set up in the site IMGUR See: https://imgur.com/a/t3vU3

On this private link you will be able to see what the FBI policies were and how they should handle a hijacked plane

In this link the first document you read is the recent letter I received from the FAA. The claim to have no records of my dad;s hijacking at all. This is odd since FAA personal were involved in the depositions and testimony as witness in both Federal Court trials that took place.

My dad’s case has been erased from the Government archive records….you can read the letter, but it basically states the hijacking did not take place. Since part of the FAA’s mandate is to track these events, and as strange as it is, it fits a pattern of what I have had to endure in trying gather the records

After the FAA denial read the files and see the actual crime scene photos…..
Keep in mind the judge that heard the case against the FBI, Judge L. Clure Morton was in fact a former FBI agent. Outside of ruling for the FBI, he placed all the files in court be placed “Under Seal”

It has taken a great deal of effort over the last 6 years to get these documents,’I look forward to your response

This second memo shows how ALL FBI were supposed to handle any hijacked plane.

It is important to note that up until 9/11 all Captains in the US had the protections if the need be to protect their crews and passengers..

It is also interesting that whenever these rules were followed, not a singe injury or death took place from 1970 thru 9/11 when the FBI or others decided to get tough in lieu of reading.

These are pages directly from the FBI handbook at this time.
https://imgur.com/a/9j85z

More on the 58 November Hijacking here.